TDIdriver
Sophomore Author
Tulsa
Posts:209
Points:58,670
Joined:Jul 2005
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Message Posted: May 31, 2009 11:34:08 PM
Thankfully, I am not forced to use ethanol. E10 splash blended fuel is not mandated in my state. More than half of the stations in my town have ridded themselves of ethanol.
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RedRider1OK
All-Star Author
Oklahoma City
Posts:943
Points:25,440
Joined:Mar 2008
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Message Posted: May 23, 2009 9:11:14 PM
"A 1978 Buick Regal is an antique and should be off the roads."
Speak for yourself. Sounds like pqerassi could work for the govt. and could start MANDATING Chrysler or GM flex fuel vehicle purchases. I personally believe if you own a 1978 Buick Regal then thats just great and the fuel that you buy should perform appropriately for that vehicle.
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pgerassi
Champion Author
Milwaukee
Posts:10,881
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Message Posted: May 23, 2009 1:58:05 PM
A 1978 Buick Regal is an antique and should be off the roads. It pollutes way too much (more than 400 modern cars all by itself). For those antiques, they should just get aircraft unleaded (87RON). Sure you will be paying a bunch more, but with an antique, what do you expect? Car made before 1972 actually have to use aircraft low lead gasoline because its the only leaded fuel generally available.
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bar1035
Champion Author
Charlotte
Posts:9,130
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Message Posted: May 18, 2009 7:36:12 AM
Please test the 1978 Buick Regal EPA before allowing any higher blends
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jacksfan
Champion Author
Lincoln
Posts:2,554
Points:1,235,205
Joined:May 2006
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Message Posted: May 14, 2009 8:24:49 PM
""(I'm assuming that's who you mean by "they" since only the EPA can slam the door on higher blends of ethanol) "
Keep hopping allong... You assumed wrong.
"Quite rightly! The American Lung Association said NO as well!"
Posted below.
Perfectly meaningless. I asked for proof that "they" (meaning the EPA) actually said, "that all of the non peer reviewed corn ethanol studies were worthless." You posted as proof a transcript of testimony, i.e. opinion. Thanks for wasting everyone's time.
As I stated earlier, no one slammed the door on anything.
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jacksfan
Champion Author
Lincoln
Posts:2,554
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Message Posted: May 14, 2009 4:12:34 PM
Again. Proof, please.
You posted testimony from a lung association guy. I see nothing about the EPA (I'm assuming that's who you mean by "they" since only the EPA can slam the door on higher blends of ethanol) stating, "that all of the non peer reviewed corn ethanol studies were worthless."
Looks like you're taking us down another bunny trail, archer, like you did trying to find a law about putting blends higher than E10 in non-flex vehicles.
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jacksfan
Champion Author
Lincoln
Posts:2,554
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Message Posted: May 13, 2009 8:26:00 AM
"Actually they did slam the door... They said that all of the non peer reviewed corn ethanol studies were worthless."
Proof please.
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jacksfan
Champion Author
Lincoln
Posts:2,554
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Message Posted: May 12, 2009 4:26:19 PM
"Quite rightly! The American Lung Association said NO as well!"
Nobody slammed the door on anything. They decided it needed further study. The American Lung Association agreed. Redrider writes topic lines like he's writing for the National Enquirer.
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chemist74
Champion Author
Cleveland
Posts:13,510
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Message Posted: May 12, 2009 7:12:57 AM
If Washington/EPA want to increase the amount of ethanol used in vehicles they need to do one or more of the following.
1. Encourage the percentage of flex-fuel (E85) vehicles produced to increase sharply and somehow convince people who own flex-fuel vehicles to actually use E85.
2. Pick a higher percentage ethanol level and pass a law increasing the level of ethanol that all new vehicles made/sold in the U.S. must be able to handle. Since the average age of cars in the U.S. is over 9 years, this would need to be done 15 - 20 years before a significant increase in all gasoline is required for all gasoline.
3. Require ALL gasoline to have at least 10% ethanol (E10). No more ethanol-free gasoline.
4. Have the government "certify" that all cars on the road can use the higher level with the government accepting responsibility for any claimed damage caused by the higher ethanol level.
Since it does not cost much more to make a flex-fuel vehicle, I would like to see most new car produced as flex-fuel.
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goldseeker
Champion Author
West Virginia
Posts:19,513
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Message Posted: May 1, 2009 11:40:33 PM
"Remember a few years ago when all the 'experts' were talking about the how caustic ethanol is?"
Whoops! I guess they weren't experts afterall. I have been using ethanol blends exclusively for over ten years and no signs of corrosion on any of my motors.
If you do not like ethanol, do not use it. I happen to like it and do use it. And I will be very happy to help reduce our dependence on foreign oil just one gallon at a time.
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bar1035
Champion Author
Charlotte
Posts:9,130
Points:1,294,220
Joined:Aug 2006
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Message Posted: May 1, 2009 8:10:18 AM
That is a good thing. Remember a few years ago when all the 'experts' were talking about the how caustic ethanol is? Forget so soon? And the price of ethanol is a lot higher outside the corn belt. Not really competitive even with taxpayer help.
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cottagepeople
Rookie Author
Ohio
Posts:1
Points:145
Joined:Apr 2009
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Message Posted: Apr 30, 2009 8:16:15 AM
I have heard that in South America cars that Ford makes and sells can run on either gas or ethanol with gas being more expensive and ethanol less expensive. The mileage is less for ethanol but you have a choice. If this is true why is it so difficult to find cars here that will do the same.
We are a Prius owner and regularly get 50 miles to the gallon of gas.
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WEPSMAN
Champion Author
South Dakota
Posts:10,508
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Message Posted: Apr 30, 2009 7:45:43 AM
Ehtanol is not the answer to alternative fuels.
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goldseeker
Champion Author
West Virginia
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Message Posted: Apr 23, 2009 3:39:13 PM
"Without this guarantee (or a corresponding guarantee from the federal government), many drivers would be unwilling to take the risk so gas stations would probably need to put in seperate E10 and E20 pumps."
Actually the real solution would be to install blender pumps and let drivers make their own decisions.
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chemist74
Champion Author
Cleveland
Posts:13,510
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Message Posted: Apr 23, 2009 7:30:19 AM
The big problem is "Who assumes responsibility for any damage done by higher ethanol levels?".
More than 20 years ago, the government required all cars made in the U.S. to be able to use 10% ethanol. This was long before E10 was common so almost everything on the road was compatible before almost anyone could find E10.
Almost everything on the road today could probably use E15 or E20 but it is not clear how many manufacturers would be willing to guarantee all of the cars they made in the last 10 - 15 years for use with E20.
Without this guarantee (or a corresponding guarantee from the federal government), many drivers would be unwilling to take the risk so gas stations would probably need to put in seperate E10 and E20 pumps.
It would make more sense to increase the number of new vehicles that can use E85 and the general availability of E85.
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NICHOLLSJL
Champion Author
Lincoln
Posts:3,102
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Message Posted: Apr 10, 2009 8:14:53 AM
I've used E85 for 4 years without engine damage, so what will E15 do that E85 didn't?
They should go to E30 and the MPG would be closer to the same mileage than E10 or E15.
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thegovner
Champion Author
New Jersey
Posts:12,713
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Message Posted: Apr 7, 2009 7:00:39 PM
Ethanol gives me POOR MPG's
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goldseeker
Champion Author
West Virginia
Posts:19,513
Points:2,714,815
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Message Posted: Apr 2, 2009 4:17:51 PM
True to form, Red is at it again adding his hype and spin to an article that also has it share of hype and spin.
EPA slamming the door shut for another year on higher blends? In the first place if you go to the EPA site you will not find this article. Instead this is an opinion article from Reuters.
Secondly this article claims that "Oge said the agency "will soon" publish the proposal and seek public comment. She said EPA has 270 days to act on the request, from March 6 when it was received."
Also "The head of the trade group representing U.S. oil refiners that make gasoline told the Senate panel it opposed any legislation or regulations approving higher ethanol blends until "unbiased and comprehensive" testing is complete."
And what do you expect from the trade group of representing oil refiners?
Unbiased testing? Now if that isn't calling the kettle black.
There is no real news at all in this article. This is the typical process. It is also the typical amount of hype and spin applied by the anti-ethanol crowd.
[Edited by: goldseeker at 4/2/2009 5:19:03 PM EST]
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outridin
Champion Author
Illinois
Posts:15,690
Points:3,049,935
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Message Posted: Apr 2, 2009 12:58:11 PM
lets wait until the cows come home to add more ethanol to gas.
also let us buy gas with no ethanol, please
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RedRider1OK
All-Star Author
Oklahoma City
Posts:943
Points:25,440
Joined:Mar 2008
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Message Posted: Apr 1, 2009 9:53:42 PM
Here's the text: Link did not work.
U.S. needs another year to test higher ethanol blend
Wed Apr 1, 2009 12:46pm EDT Email | Print | Share| Reprints | Single Page[-] Text [+]
1 of 1Full SizeBy Tom Doggett
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency said on Wednesday it will take another year to complete government testing on whether higher levels of ethanol can be blended into gasoline without harming engines.
Ethanol is now approved to make up 10 percent of gasoline in cars and trucks. Producers are pushing the government to allow higher ethanol blend levels, as more ethanol will be required each year under federal law.
Congress required 9 billion gallons of ethanol and other biofuels to be blended into gasoline last year. The amount will rise annually toward 36 billion gallons a year in 2022.
However, the Energy Department estimates that as early as 2013, at the 10 percent blend rate, the amount of ethanol required to be produced would exceed the amount the U.S. vehicle fleet could consume. The so-called 10 percent blend wall could be reached a year earlier if a weak economy further reduces gasoline demand.
Margo Oge, Director of the EPA's Office of Transportation and Air Quality, told a Senate panel the agency is working with the Energy Department to test the impact of higher ethanol levels and hopes to finish "over the course of the next year."
In a statement to a Senate Clean Air and Nuclear Safety Subcommittee hearing, Oge said the tests should provide "emissions and durability data to support a decision on the appropriate use, if any, of higher blends of ethanol in gasoline vehicles and engines."
Oge noted that the EPA received a petition last month from Growth Energy and 52 ethanol manufacturers to allow gasoline to contain up to 15 percent of ethanol by volume.
Oge said the agency "will soon" publish the proposal and seek public comment. She said EPA has 270 days to act on the request, from March 6 when it was received.
The head of the trade group representing U.S. oil refiners that make gasoline told the Senate panel it opposed any legislation or regulations approving higher ethanol blends until "unbiased and comprehensive" testing is complete.
"There has not been sufficient testing of motor vehicle and nonroad equipment engines to justify" higher ethanol blends in gasoline, said Charles Drevna, President of the National Petrochemical and Refiners Association.
Livestock operators complain that more ethanol production would raise their animal feed costs because ethanol made in the United States is refined mostly from corn.
Sen. Tom Carper, who chairs the subcommittee, questioned whether the U.S. market can absorb increased ethanol supplies each year now that gasoline demand has declined due to a weak economy and more fuel-efficient vehicles on the road.
"As (gasoline) consumption decreases our biofuels standard increases," he said. "Are we moving too fast for our infrastructure and engines to handle the biofuels safely?"
(Reporting by Tom Doggett; editing by Jim Marshall)
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