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llmike007 Rookie Author San Bernardino Posts:80 Points:1,636,410 Joined:Sep 2007	Message Posted: Dec 30, 2008 11:48:49 PM Ignore llmike007 Report Abuse On a recent episode of "The People's Court," a lady sued a mechanic over an issue about her car's "check engine" light. I didn't happen to watch the whole thing, but I assume that she probably sued him because the light kept turning on even after he "fixed" it. Whatever the issue was, Judge Milian ruled in favor of the defendant. As is typical with "TPC," the defendant was asked what he thought of the verdict. I was appalled with his response: "I blame the gasoline companies. They're putting too much alcohol in the gas, and it's throwing off the computer." We've been talking about what constitutes a suitable amount of ethanol in gas for the longest time on this forum. Is ethanol a possible suspect here?

llmike007

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Message Posted: Dec 30, 2008 11:48:49 PM

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On a recent episode of "The People's Court," a lady sued a mechanic over an issue about her car's "check engine" light. I didn't happen to watch the whole thing, but I assume that she probably sued him because the light kept turning on even after he "fixed" it. Whatever the issue was, Judge Milian ruled in favor of the defendant.

As is typical with "TPC," the defendant was asked what he thought of the verdict. I was appalled with his response: "I blame the gasoline companies. They're putting too much alcohol in the gas, and it's throwing off the computer."

We've been talking about what constitutes a suitable amount of ethanol in gas for the longest time on this forum. Is ethanol a possible suspect here?

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PbFootNY Champion Author New York Posts:7,934 Points:1,539,660 Joined:Nov 2008	Message Posted: Jan 5, 2009 11:57:14 PM Ignore PbFootNY Report Abuse As much as I hate ethanol, I've never had it cause a "Check Engine" condition. The computer in my '89 never had a problem with it. The lady in the story probably had an emissions problem that the mechanic just kept clearing out with a scan tool. Gas mileage is a different story. I call don't call it E10, I call it E-10% less!
altlandf Sophomore Author Pennsylvania Posts:248 Points:24,365 Joined:Aug 2003	Message Posted: Jan 5, 2009 3:58:14 PM Ignore altlandf Report Abuse It is indeed ethanol. That stuff is crap. There is even a couple pages about ethanol in a GM factory service manual. If there is too much ethanol it does not allow the engine to run right. I just started riding my motorcycle. It ran fine for a couple weeks now it is also having problems running. It is a small bike with one carb on it so it is not hard to clean.
BeepBeeplookout Champion Author London Posts:7,244 Points:434,995 Joined:Dec 2008	Message Posted: Jan 4, 2009 10:05:46 PM Ignore BeepBeeplookout Report Abuse Got me there. I was a BC resident from 1993 to 2004 and it was a local issue. It was the then NDP provincial government that complained and was sued. The acronym is similar, and it's been years since I thought about it.
gougedQC Champion Author Montreal Posts:5,140 Points:69,985 Joined:Apr 2008	Message Posted: Jan 4, 2009 8:30:53 PM Ignore gougedQC Report Abuse BEEP- are you possibly confusing MTBE with the MMT lawsuit? Use of MTBE was all but gone by 2000 in Canada. Although it did contaminate ground water, its biggest problem -apparently- was that it made the water smell and taste bad, but was not proven to cause any real health issues. Ethyl Corp of US sued Canada under NAFTA over banning toxic MMT in gas, Canada caved on that one. I too have noticed some of the tiny little stickers 'may contain up to 10% ethanol"... pretty sneaky! Here E-10 was always same or higher price! As you know, I'm against it primarily due to the complete distortions nd mistruths presented by the spin-meisters of the big eth lobby.
BeepBeeplookout Champion Author London Posts:7,244 Points:434,995 Joined:Dec 2008	Message Posted: Jan 4, 2009 8:06:20 PM Ignore BeepBeeplookout Report Abuse Where I live, people used to go to Pioneer stations on purpose because they have ethanol blend at discounted price (being a Farmer/Co-Op company). Now most stations are selling e blends as regular gas. You have to look around if you don't want it. Small stickers have appeared on many pumps stating: May contain up to 10% ethanol. I don't think the average consumer really notices or cares. I guess Canada is exploring our own ethanol content mandates? BTW the price for 10% blend and (non)regular is equal. There is no discount anymore. But no premium either, the prices move in unison. [Edited by: BeepBeeplookout at 1/4/2009 9:08:55 PM EST]
E-Squirrel Champion Author Orange County Posts:3,025 Points:824,195 Joined:Feb 2005	Message Posted: Jan 4, 2009 6:26:08 PM Ignore E-Squirrel Report Abuse All gasoline sold in California has ethanol added, by law. It replaced MTBE, which was demonstrated to have serious pollution issues. Virtually all of the gasoline sold here is E10, which has some loss of mileage compared with straight gasoline. MTBE blended fuel had a similar loss. It has been so many years now that straight gasoline has been unavailable here, that nobody even thinks about it even any more. [Edited by: E-Squirrel at 1/4/2009 7:26:42 PM EST]
GM1954 Champion Author Illinois Posts:7,950 Points:131,880 Joined:Dec 2004	Message Posted: Jan 4, 2009 10:38:51 AM Ignore GM1954 Report Abuse "It was general knowledge that nothing is quite so energy packed as regular gas" Gasoline with MTBE and gasoline with an equivalent amount of ethanol have approximately the same energy content.
BeepBeeplookout Champion Author London Posts:7,244 Points:434,995 Joined:Dec 2008	Message Posted: Jan 4, 2009 10:29:32 AM Ignore BeepBeeplookout Report Abuse "Don't you find it strange that MTBE doesn't produce the same hysteria." It did up here. MTBE became controversial when it was discovered to be contaminating ground water, in British Columbia. The MTBE companies successfully sued the Provincial Government under NAFTA when the ban of it was attempted. It's use WAS eventually BANNED, but not before our government was forced to pay out our cash. The environmental damages by that product were proved in the end. The ban was the right thing to do. Nobody round here gave a crap about any millage loss due to ethanol content until recently. Quite the opposite. Until gas prices went so high the last year or two, eth blend fuel was cheaper than straight gas usually by around 10 cent/liter. We all ate it up and loved it. Pioneer is an independent/owner shareholder chain here and they have always blended ethanol in their fuel and that was why it was cheaper than the Big Brand stations. It was general knowledge that nothing is quite so energy packed as regular gas, but I figured the eth would have a beneficial effect of cleaning out your system. Until the prices shot so high last year, any millage loss was not a factor, the pump price was too tempting.
GM1954 Champion Author Illinois Posts:7,950 Points:131,880 Joined:Dec 2004	Message Posted: Jan 4, 2009 8:37:25 AM Ignore GM1954 Report Abuse The addition of a small amount of ethanol is to produce the same effect as MTBE. Ethanol is performing the same function as MTBE. Don't you find it strange that MTBE doesn't produce the same hysteria. Case in point, MTBE has the same effect on fuel economy as an equivalent mount of ethanol. it's only when people place fuel containing a small amount of ethanol in their tank they see major changes in fuel economy. In theory, a small amount of ethanol added to regular (nonMTBE) gasoline could produce a small difference in fuel economy. But, it's so slight, that you aren't going to be able to detect the difference outside well controlled conditions. In theory MTBE fuel and the equivalent ethanol fuel should produce identical fuel economy. The point is if you are in an area that required MTBE and now has E5 or E10, the properties of the two fuels are almost identical, including energy content. Most or any differnces seen from swithing from MTBE fuel to ethanol containing fuel are most likely imaginary. [Edited by: GM1954 at 1/4/2009 9:38:54 AM EST]
rumbleseat Champion Author Winnipeg Posts:23,072 Points:3,551,075 Joined:Oct 2002	Message Posted: Jan 2, 2009 3:42:00 PM Ignore rumbleseat Report Abuse I couldn't find a description telling us what year, make model car was involved, and I didn't see that episode, so, I am merely speculating. So, could she have been filling with E85 in a car that was not flex? Or perhaps the mechanic didn't realize she wasn't tightening her gas cap properly? In my case, now that every fill is E10, from every station in Manitoba, my mileage has actually stabilized fractionally HIGHER. My wife's car didn't even notice when her regular stations switched to E10 at the start of 2008. And, in the several years since I purchased my car, the engine light has been on twice, both times it turned out the attendant hadn't tightened the cap far enough, and turning it until it clicked a couple of times made the light go out shortly after. [Edited by: rumbleseat at 1/2/2009 4:43:56 PM EST]
PbFootNY Champion Author New York Posts:7,934 Points:1,539,660 Joined:Nov 2008	Message Posted: Jan 2, 2009 1:26:15 AM Ignore PbFootNY Report Abuse OceanArcher wrote: "I know that both my cars are much happier running on E-0 fuels ..." Mine too. Now that I found out I have a choice in my area, I'd have to be pretty hard-up to buy E-10 again.
SilverStreaker Champion Author Twin Cities Posts:12,077 Points:2,244,120 Joined:Mar 2006	Message Posted: Jan 1, 2009 9:46:31 AM Ignore SilverStreaker Report Abuse I have had my two non-FFV's up to 35% ethanol with no problems, even with temperatures near 0 degrees F.
OceanArcher Champion Author Mississippi Posts:5,843 Points:1,355,100 Joined:May 2004	Message Posted: Dec 31, 2008 6:51:24 PM Ignore OceanArcher Report Abuse I know that both my cars are much happier running on E-0 fuels ...
PitbulI Rookie Author Winnipeg Posts:91 Points:86,065 Joined:Sep 2004	Message Posted: Dec 31, 2008 6:23:32 AM Ignore PitbulI Report Abuse I was told a long time ago that I should stay away from ethenol fuel with my old car that I had. This was before ethenol was in most gas. Turns out, I've noticed lately that same type of Car I haven't seen on the road much at all lately and those things were almost bulletproof.